Nagle & delayed ACK strike again

Chris Rapier rapier at psc.edu
Fri Dec 22 12:51:49 EST 2006


I'm assuming that the network in question has a 1500B MTU. Does anything 
change if the MTU is increased to 9k?

Miklos Szeredi wrote:
>>> To me it still looks like the use of Nagle is the exception, it has
>>> already been turned off in the server for
>>>
>>>   - interactive sessions
>> For at least some interactive sessions.  In the telnet space at least, 
>> there is this constant back and forth happening bewteen wanting 
>> keystrokes to be nice and uniform, and not overwhelming slot terminal 
>> devices (eg barcode scanners) when applications on the server dump a 
>> bunch of stuff down stdio.
> 
> For ssh this is unconditional.  I've suggested adding NoDelay/
> NoNoDelay options, but somebody on this list vetoed that.
> 
>>>   - X11 forwarding
>>>
>>> and it will need to be turned off for
>>>
>>>   - SFTP transport
>>>
>>>   - IP tunnelling
>>>
>>>   - ???
>>>
>>> Is there any transported protocol where Nagle does make sense?
>> Regular FTP is one, anything unidirectional.
> 
> Nagle doesn't help FTP or HTTP does it?  Anything that just pushes a
> big chunk of data will automatically end up with big packets.
> 
> So other than the disputed interactive session, Nagle doesn't seem to
> have any positive effects.
> 
>> It also depends on what one is trying to optimize.  If one is only 
>> interested in optimizing time, Nagle may not be the thing.  However, 
>> Nagle can optimize the ratio of data to data+headers and it can optimize 
>> the quanity of CPU consumed per unit of data transferred.
> 
> For a filesystem protocol obviously latency (and hence throughput) is
> the most important factor.
> 
>> Some netperf data for the unidirectional case, between a system in Palo 
>> Alto and one in Cupertino, sending-side CPU utilization included, 
>> similar things can happen to receive-side CPU:
>>
>> TCP STREAM TEST from 0.0.0.0 (0.0.0.0) port 0 AF_INET to 
>> tardy.cup.hp.com (15.244.56.217) port 0 AF_INET
>> Recv  Send   Send                        Utilization      Service Demand
>> SocketSocket Message Elapsed             Send     Recv    Send    Recv
>> Size  Size   Size    Time     Throughput local    remote  local   remote
>> bytes bytes  bytes   secs.    10^6bits/s % S      % U     us/KB   us/KB
>>
>> 131072 219136    512    10.10      74.59   8.78   -1.00   9.648   -1.000
>>
>> raj at tardy:~/netperf2_work$ src/netperf -H tardy.cup.hp.com -c -- -m 512 
>> -s 128K -S 128K -D
>> TCP STREAM TEST from 0.0.0.0 (0.0.0.0) port 0 AF_INET to 
>> tardy.cup.hp.com (15.244.56.217) port 0 AF_INET : nodelay
>> Recv   Send   Send                       Utilization      Service Demand
>> Socket Socket Message Elapsed            Send     Recv    Send    Recv
>> Size   Size   Size    Time    Throughput local    remote  local   remote
>> bytes  bytes  bytes   secs.   10^6bits/s % S      % U     us/KB   us/KB
>>
>> 131072 219136   512    10.02       69.21  20.56   -1.00   24.335  -1.000
>>
>> The multiple concurrent request/response case is more nuanced and 
>> difficule to make.  Basically, it is a race between how many small 
>> requests (or responses) will be made at one time, the RTT between the 
>> systems, the standalone ACK timer on the receiver, and the service time 
>> on the receiver.
>>
>> Here is some data with netperf TCP_RR between those two systems:
>>
>> raj at tardy:~/netperf2_work$ src/netperf -H tardy.cup.hp.com -c -t TCP_RR 
>> -- -r 128,2048 -b 3
>> TCP REQUEST/RESPONSE TEST from 0.0.0.0 (0.0.0.0) port 0 AF_INET to 
>> tardy.cup.hp.com (15.244.56.217) port 0 AF_INET : first burst 3
>> Local /Remote
>> Socket Size  Request Resp. Elapsed Trans.  CPU    CPU    S.dem   S.dem
>> Send   Recv  Size    Size  Time    Rate    local  remote local   remote
>> bytes  bytes bytes   bytes secs.   per sec % S    % U    us/Tr   us/Tr
>>
>> 16384  87380 128     2048  10.00   1106.42 4.74   -1.00  42.852  -1.000
>> 32768  32768
>> raj at tardy:~/netperf2_work$ src/netperf -H tardy.cup.hp.com -c -t TCP_RR 
>> -- -r 128,2048 -b 3 -D
>> TCP REQUEST/RESPONSE TEST from 0.0.0.0 (0.0.0.0) port 0 AF_INET to 
>> tardy.cup.hp.com (15.244.56.217) port 0 AF_INET : nodelay : first burst 3
>> Local /Remote
>> Socket Size  Request Resp. Elapsed Trans.   CPU    CPU    S.dem   S.dem
>> Send   Recv  Size    Size  Time    Rate     local  remote local   remote
>> bytes  bytes bytes   bytes secs.   per sec  % S    % U    us/Tr   us/Tr
>>
>> 16384  87380 128     2048  10.01   2145.98  10.49  -1.00  48.875  -1.000
>> 32768  32768
>>
>>
>> Now, setting TCP_NODELAY did indeed produce a big jump in transactions 
>> per second.  Notice though how it also resulted in a 14% increase in CPU 
>> utilization per transaction.  Clearly the lunch was not free.
>>
>> The percentage difference in transactions per second will converge the 
>> larger the number of outstanding transactions.  Taking the settings from 
>> above, where the first column is the size of the burst in netperf, the 
>> second is without TCP_NODELAY set, the third with:
>>
>> raj at tardy:~/netperf2_work$ for i in 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27; do echo $i 
>> `src/netperf -H tardy.cup.hp.com -t TCP_RR -l 4 -P 0 -v 0 -- -r 128,2048 
>> -b $i; src/netperf -H tardy.cup.hp.com -t TCP_RR -l 4 -P 0 -v 0 -- -r 
>> 128,2048 -b $i -D`; done
>> 3 1186.40 2218.63
>> 6 1952.53 3695.64
>> 9 2574.49 4833.47
>> 12 3194.71 4856.63
>> 15 3388.54 4784.26
>> 18 4215.70 5099.52
>> 21 4645.97 5170.89
>> 24 4918.16 5336.79
>> 27 4927.71 5448.78
>>
>> If we increase the request size to 256 bytes, and the response to 8192 
>> (In all honesty I don't know what sizes sftp might use so I'm making 
>> wild guesses) we can see the convergence happen much sooner - it takes 
>> fewer of the 8192 byte responses to take the TCP connection to the 
>> bandwidth delay product of the link:
>>
>> raj at tardy:~/netperf2_work$ for i in 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27; do echo $i 
>> `src/netperf -H tardy.cup.hp.com -t TCP_RR -l 4 -P 0 -v 0 -- -r 256,8192 
>> -b $i -s 128K -S 128K; src/netperf -H tardy.cup.hp.com -t TCP_RR -l 4 -P 
>> 0 -v 0 -- -r 256,8192 -s 128K -S 128K -b $i -D`; done
>> 3 895.18 1279.38
>> 6 1309.11 1405.38
>> 9 1395.30 1325.44
>> 12 1256.75 1422.01
>> 15 1412.39 1413.64
>> 18 1400.04 1419.76
>> 21 1415.62 1422.79
>> 24 1419.56 1420.10
>> 27 1422.43 1379.72
> 
> In SFTP the WRIYR request/reply sizes are more like 64kB/32B, and the
> outstanding transactions are as many as the socket buffers will bear.
> 
> The slowdown is clearly due to 50ms outages from delayed ACK, which is
> totally broken, the network is just sitting there idle for no good
> reason whatsoever.
> 
> I can make new traces, but I guess they would be very similar to the
> ones I sent last time for the SFTP download case.
> 
> Miklos
> _______________________________________________
> openssh-unix-dev mailing list
> openssh-unix-dev at mindrot.org
> http://lists.mindrot.org/mailman/listinfo/openssh-unix-dev


More information about the openssh-unix-dev mailing list