OpenSSH protocol 1.6 proposal

[Michael H. Warfield]

On Sat, Jan 01, 2000 at 04:37:07PM -0500, Brian Fundakowski Feldman wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2000, Dug Song wrote:

> > On Sat, 1 Jan 2000, Brian Fundakowski Feldman wrote:

> > > 	http://www.FreeBSD.org/~green/openssh.SHA-1.patch
> > > MD5 (public_html/openssh.SHA-1.patch) = e21a896f59474a31ab3b9103acf44c35

> > > P.S.:	I realize other people may have proposed something very similar.
> > > 	Indeed, markus's proposal may be something like this.  However,
> > > 	since it's impossible to work with anyone who is Theo, or
> > > 	"under" Theo, it's unrealistic to work with that.  Hence the
> > > 	reason we need to make a code fork of OpenSSH as soon as
> > > 	convenient.

> > i'm sorry you feel this way. so far, the OpenBSD OpenSSH developers and
> > the Linux/Solaris/etc. OpenSSH developers led by Damien Miller have been
> > getting along just fine. we hereby cordially invite you to join the party!

> > 	http://violet.ibs.com.au/openssh/list.html

> > best wishes for the new year.

> Have you, personally, ever tried to talk to Theo?  I know I'm not the
> only one who has tried, and only gotten flames in response.  I don't

	As a matter of fact I have.  Theo and I shared more than a few
beers down in San Antonio at the Usenix Security Symposium a while back.
I found that he was just as opinionated and arrogant as I was.  I quickly
figured out that one did NOT come to debate one's position with Theo
unless one was fully prepared to defend one's position.  I like that man!
I don't agree with him on all points and we may send some people scrambling
for 911 when we debate, but I like him.  He knows his position and he IS
prepared to debate it and defend it.  Anyone who attempts to argue with
him who is not prepared it engaging in a self inflicted injury.  I don't
know and don't really care if he remembers our debates (hell, it was 2 in
the morning).  He has my respect, whether I agree with him or not.

> think someone like that should be the head of any project, and it's
> truly impossible to work with such a... person.

	Excuse "my french" at this point.

	No...  He is easy to work with...  I know plently of assholes who
don't know jack shit about what they are managing, but the are "the manager".
THEY are impossible to work with.  I have watched at least one totally
incompetant moron, whose sole goal in life is to be a role model for a
dilbert comic strip, totally destroy a corporate position with regard
to platforms and support.  This man micromanaged by "buzzword".  Buzzword
bingo is no fun when everyone goes balistic five minutes into one of his
monologs.

	I would work under Theo in a heart beat, even if they had to
call the goon squad to keep us from throtalling each other.  Theo knows
his shit and is prepared to defend his position.  Anyone who argues with
him and is NOT prepared to do this same gets what they deserve.

>    Now, if you come to tell me there's a way to actually discuss things
> with ration human beings, not having to deal with flaming egomaniacs,
> I am all ears!  I would love to have more people to work with, where
> the people could actually remain civil.

	I had this with Theo.  If you are prepared to defend your ideas
and are prepared to LISTEN to his, you CAN have a productive debate with
him.  You will not win all the arguements.  You may even win a few points
with him.  You may even part as friends (I hope I can claim that).  He may
concede some points and learn some things and so may you.  You DON'T
engage him in debate to convince him of something.  You engage him in debate
expecting that you BOTH MIGHT learn something.  And you will...

> > -d.

> > ---
> > http://www.monkey.org/~dugsong/

> -- 
>  Brian Fundakowski Feldman           \  FreeBSD: The Power to Serve!  /
>  green at FreeBSD.org                    `------------------------------'

	Mike
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